Can I Trust the Informant's Information When Only His/Her Last Name Is Given? -- Thomas H. Nelson's Death Certificate

Thomas H. Nelson, son of Robert and Jane (Watson) Nelson.  I searched for this death certificate knowing, or at least hoping, that it would name his parents, thereby confirming some already-collected information. 

This is the death certificate.

This is the transcription.

State of Ohio
Bureau of Vital Statistics
Certificate of Death
PLACE OF DEATH   County of Jefferson   Registration District No. 2698   File No. 43634
Village of Mingo Jct    Registered No. 45.
  2   FULL NAME   Thomas H. Nelson
PERSONAL AND STATISTICAL PARTICULARS
  3   SEX   Male
  4   COLOR OR RACE   White
  5   Widowed
  6   DATE OF BIRTH   Jan 31, 1842
  7   AGE   76 yrs.   5 mos.   27 da.
  8   OCCUPATION   Retired
  9   BIRTHPLACE   Ohio
PARENTS [lines 10-13]
10   NAME OF FATHER   Robert W. Nelson
11   BIRTHPLACE OF FATHER   England
12   MAIDEN NAME OF MOTHER   Don’t Know
13   BIRTHPLACE OF MOTHER   England
14   THE ABOVE IS TRUE TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE
        (Informant)              Nelson
        (Address)    Steubenville O
15   Filed   July 30 , 1918      G. E. Fithen
                                                     Deputy Registrar
MEDICAL CERTIFICATE OF DEATH
16   DATE OF DEATH   July 27, 1918
17   I HEREBY CERTIFY, That I attended deceased
from Dec. 20", 1917, to July 26, 1918
that I last saw him alive on July 26, 1918,
and that death occurred, on the date stated above, at 10 34 a m.
The CAUSE OF DEATH was as follows:
Chronic Interstitial Nephritis
(Signed) Edward J. G. Sanders , M. D.
July 29" , 1918            (Address)   Steubenville, O....
18   [blank]
19   PLACE OF BURIAL OR REMOVAL  Union      DATE OF BURIAL  July 30, 1918
20   UNDERTAKER   D. F. Coe   Steubenville O

Comments
I was surprised to see Thomas H.'s father's name as "Robert W. Nelson" on this record.  To date, every document I've found (there are at least eight of them) with Robert Nelson's name on it gives his name as "Robert Nelson" or "Robert Nelson Sr."  Other than on FamilySearch Family Tree (where another researcher chose to include the W.), this is the first time I find "my" Robert Nelson identified as "Robert W. Nelson," and the first record in which I see him with that middle initial.  Can it be accurate?  Should the number of documents I have indicate whether to include that middle initial?

The informant's last name is the only one given.  Who might it be?  Thomas H.'s son?  Robert's brother?  Or possibly a grandson of Thomas H.?  Can I trust the information from an unknown informant?  How well did he/she know the family?  Where did the information of Robert's name come from?  I understand that any informant can give the wrong information, including a close relative, one who doesn't really know the family, or one who assumes information.  And I realize that no informants were alive at the birth of their parents.  But I'm really hesitant to accept this informant's information, especially because it is the only time I've seen Robert Nelson with the middle initial of W.

I had so hoped this record would settle that problem of the "W" middle initial.  Not yet, I guess.  And does it really matter in the long run?

I did not expect to see Jane Watson's name on this record.  The moms and their maiden names usually seem to be forgotten, or not known.

How much weight do you put on information given by an informant, whether or not you know who it is?

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Parents with No Known Names - SNGF on October 18, 2025

Randy Seaver's suggestion yesterday for this week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun was this:

1. Sometimes we don't know the full name of both of the parents of an ancestor.  In our family tree, those ancestors with no-known-name parents are the end-of-the-line, at least as far as we know. [Some researchers call them "brick walls."]
2. Tell us about several of your ancestors that have no known-name parents, 
3. When was the last time you looked for these not known parents? 

This is a topic I havn't thought about for a while, but one I'm happy to revisit.  For the grandparents below, it's not for lack of searching that I don't know their names.

Henry Carl Meinzen is my great-grandfather, my maternal grandfather's father.  Henry was born in Prussia/Hanover/Germany in 1837 and died in Ohio in 1925.   Family lore claims Henry's father's name as Carl.  However, Henry's sister Sophia Meinzen Kropp's death certificate gives their father's name as Deidrich.  I've been unable to locate a document that tells their town or city of birth and have found no church records that I can definitively associate with Henry, Sophia, or their father.

John Froman is one of my paternal great-great-grandfathers.  He was born about 1841 in Germany and died about December, 1871, in Mercer County, PA.  He arrived in the U.S. in 1856 at the age of 16 as Johannes Frommann along with Werner Frommann, 54 years; Maria, 21; Anna, 12; Elisabeth, 7; Heinrich, 5; Caspar, 4; and Christiane, 23.  I've not found evidence of Werner Frommann in any other documents (even with spelling variants).  Writing this reminds me that I might find a death record for one of John's siblings that gives parents' names, not that a death certificate will positively identify a parent, but it's another place to look.  

Christian Gerner and Mary E. Stahl are my second great-grandparents, my father's great-grandparents, born about 1820 and 1824, respectively.  They immigrated to the U.S. in 1852 with one child; other children followed in 1853.  I've found no information for either of their parents.  Both were born in Germany, as far as I can tell, and married in Germany, but I don't have a city or town name where they were born or married to help.

William Doyle is my third great-grandfather, born about 1802, probably in Northumberland, and died in 1838 in Northumberland, England.  I haven't yet been able to identify his parents.  With only a name, and a common one at that, and birth year, I'm still searching.

Robert Laws is another third great-grandfather.  He and William Doyle were in-laws: William's son and Robert's daughter married in 1863.  Robert died in 1881.  There were several men named Robert Laws in Northumberland, possibly relatives, but I haven't found a hint for Robert's parents' names yet.  (How I wish British church records included names of parents!)

Making this list reminds me that I need to search for the parents of these individuals again, possibly using the names of several/more of their children to help.  For some of them it's been at least 10 years.  A lot can happen with online records in 10 years!

Sometimes I think I have too many ancestors!

Thanks for the fun, Randy.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Abel and Raymond: Two Who Disappeared - SNGF

For this week's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun Randy Seaver of Genea-Musings suggested we do this:

1. Sometimes an ancestor or relative just disappears out of the records and we cannot find another record after a certain date. 
2. Tell us about one or more of your relatives or ancestors who have disappeared and not been found since a certain date.  Do you have any idea of what might have happened to them?

Abel Armitage disappeared sometime after 1881.  He is one of my great-great-grandfathers, a coal miner who was born in Yorkshire West Riding, England, in 1821, and immigrated from Durham, England in 1864.  He settled in Steubenville, Ohio, where he continued the work of coal mining.  In the 1880 U.S. Census he is recorded as disabled.  The most recent evidence of him is in Steubenville City Council records in which he was awarded money from a court case against the city of Steubenville.  People don't just disappear!  Except he did.  I've searched every source I can think of that might be helpful including online court records, census records, newspapers of the time, probate records, cemetery records, and more.  One of his sons happens to share his father's name, so his name turns up often in records, but he's the wrong man.

I thought perhaps Abel might have moved to West Virginia, or Pennsylvania, but haven't found any records in either of those states.  My search of British records and newspapers was unsuccessful.  I thought he might have returned to England.  That was a challenge because there were two men named Able Armitage in the area where my Abel was born, one three years after my Abel.  I also searched a variety of name variations.  It seems strange that there's no obituary or death record.  Every now and then I search again, thinking new online records might shed some light.  

Raymond Doyle is the adopted son of my great-grandparents, William and Tressa Doyle, and my paternal grandfather Gust Doyle's brother.  He was born about 1904 or 1905, presumably in Mercer County, Pennsylvania..  By 1920 Raymond was living at the State Institution for the Feeble-minded in Polk, Pennsylvania, and the 1950 U.S. Census shows him living in the Mercer County Home in Coolspring Township, Mercer County, Pennsylvania.  I met Raymond sometime around 1960 at the County Home, but have no knowledge of what became of him after I met him.  My best guess is that he died at the County Home.

Since I don't know his birth name, I can't search for a birth record.  Adoption records are sealed in Pennsylvania so that's a closed door.  I thought there would be a record of his death in Pennsylvania death certificates, but have not found one.  The Mercer County home is no longer in existence and I haven't discovered if records are available somewhere, though it's likely they're sealed, too..  I have not found an obituary; I assume he would not have had one.  I haven't found him in any cemetery records.  And there seem to be no family records for Raymond. 

Again and again, these two men come to mind, almost as though they're pestering me.  I want to know what happened to them--it's as if knowing their end would allow me to put them, and the search for them, to rest.  

Thanks for the fun, Randy.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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Top Five Surprises in Genealogy Research - SNGF

Randy Seaver's suggestion for Saturday Night Genealogy Fun yesterday was this:

"What are your top five surprises you have found in your genealogy research and family history work?"

I was surprised to learn

• that my father was a twin, that his twin sister died a few days after they was born, and that their mother died a few weeks later.  So sad for that little family.  (As I've mentioned before, I come from a long line of non-storytellers.)


• that my maternal grandfather, W. C. Robert had so many siblings, which my mom and her siblings didn't seem to know.  It seems they knew only of Grampa, five sisters, and one brother.  In total there were 15 siblings, one of which I can't find.  Whenever anyone asked Grampa about his childhood and family he would say, "Go ask Aunt Mina."


• that 3 of my great-grandmothers had 14 or more children:  Elizabeth Jane (Laws) Doyle had 14 children; Elizabeth (Armitage) Meinzen had 15 children; and Elvira (Bartley) Gerner had 16 children.  I'm in awe.


• that my maternal grandmother's grandfather, Ellis Bickerstaff, committed suicide.  Such sorrow.


• that two of my great-grandfathers, John Froman and William Doyle (the elder), died when their wives were pregnant.  Strong women.


• how many of my ancestors among the first five generations (not including mine) were coal miners.   There are a total of ten.  On my father's side:  my father Lee Doyle, Gust Doyle, William Doyle, Andrew Doyle, William Doyle (the elder), Robert Laws, John Froman, and Jacob Saylor; and on my mother's side, Abel Armitage and Robert Nelson.  Strong men.

This was a great and fun activity, Randy.  Thank you.  It helped me realize how few family groups I've posted here.  I need to do that.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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A Reliable Informant for Mary A. Nelson's Death Certificate

I particularly love my ancestors who shared their family history, or at least their parents' names, with their children and spouses.  Since the early 1900s, Ohio death certificates ask for the first and last names of the deceased's parents and the mother's maiden name, as well as where they were born (though I have yet to learn a hometown from a death certificate).  Knowing parents' names makes finding the next previous generation so much easier.

My pursuit of Robert Nelson and his family led me to a record for one of his daughters, Mary A. Nelson.  Mary married William Watters in Steubenville, Ohio, in August, 1867.  Without the fact of their marriage I would be less certain this death certificate was for Robert and Jane Nelson's daughter.    

Below is Mary A. (Nelson) Watters's death certificate (viewable at FamilySearch with a free account) followed by an extraction of information from the document.

Extracted Information

Ohio Death Certificate for Mary A. Watters
White, female, widow
of 137 Wildon, Steubenville, Ohio
Died Oct 12, 1923, in Steubenville, Ohio, of cerebr[al] hemmorhage [sic]
Born February 4, 1849, in Steubenville, Ohio
Father:  Robt Nelson, born England
Mother:  Jane Watson, born England
Informant:  George Watters
Burial October 15, 1923, at Union Cemetery, Steubenville, Ohio 

A Thought
The informant, George Watters, is likely Mary's son who was born ~1884.  He appears in the 1910 census with his parents, Mary and William, and two other children.  I think it's important to know the identity of the informant.  A reliable informant who is a family member or close friend can provide the golden hint:  the deceased person's parents' names, including the mother's maiden name.  Without that name, it's hard to continue searching for ancestors.  If it happens that I know the informant's name but not the relationship, or don't recognize the name at all, I spend time trying to learn more about the person. 

Now I can more confidently search for a marriage record for Robert Nelson and Jane Watson.

And a Note
Concerning the word "reliable," it's often hard to know when an informant is reliable, and for me, reliability is on a continuum.  A person whose name I don't recognized and is not a family member I would consider unreliable until I researched the person.  I would consider a family member more reliable, but I would still research the individual to ascertain his or her relationship.  And, of course, even a "reliable" informant can give inaccurate information.  A daughter of one of my ancestors gave the information for her father and answered the questions as if for herself instead of her father's information.  The grief of death can rattle a person.  

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner.  .

Naturalization

While I was searching for Robert Nelson's immigration and naturalization documents, I came upon Kieran Healy's post, American, where he says, "I am writing this because I do not want to forget how I felt yesterday."  "Yesterday" was the day he became an American citizen after living in the U.S. nearly 20 years. 

I especially enjoyed and appreciated this post because he talks about part of the current naturalization process that I had never thought about much, the actual steps immigrants go through to become citizens -- the paperwork that must be completed to apply, the questions that are asked, the studying that must be done to learn the information to answer the questions correctly, the interview, the ceremony -- all briefly but with insight, in only a paragraph or two.

He mentions the tangle of immigration, politics, power, principle, authority, etc., that is part the current discussion among some in America.  He acknowledges them, yet focuses on his experience:  he writes about how he felt when he was in a room of other immigrants who were all there to take the Oath of Allegiance.    

I know the nationalities of my fellow oath-takers because of the next stage of the ceremony.  This was the Roll Call of Nations.  I did not know this was going to happen.  Every country of origin represented was announced in turn.  As your country was named, you were asked to stand up, and remain standing.  Afghanistan came first.  Then Algeria.  The last person to stand, immediately to my left, was from the United Kingdom.  There were twenty seven countries in all, out of only fifty or so people.  For me this part in particular was enormously, irresistibly moving.  It perfectly expressed the principle, the claim, the myth—as you please—that America is an idea.  That it does not matter where you are from.  That, in fact, America will in this moment explicitly and proudly acknowledge the sheer variety of places you are all from.  That built in to the heart of the United States is the republican ideal not just that anyone can become an American, but that this possibility is what makes the country what it is.  (Please go to Mr. Healy's post to read a continuation of his thoughts!)

Healy's post reminded me not to take citizenship in the United States for granted.  It also sent me to the USCIS Civics Test Textbook, "One Nation, One People," because I wondered if I could pass this qualifying test for U.S. citizenship.  What might I have forgotten from -- or never learned in -- my high school government class more than 50 years ago?  (There are five U.S. territories?!!!)  As an American citizen, I should know the answers without having to study beforehand and without having to answer from multiple choices, right?  They should have become a part of my core knowledge.  (Sadly, I don't think I could have passed the test without studying beforehand.)

These are some of the one hundred questions (in no particular order) asked on the citizenship test:

1. When was the Declaration of Independence adopted? 
2. What were the original 13 states? 
3. What are the five U.S. territories? 
4. When was the Constitution written? 
5. Name one of the writers of the Federalist Papers. 
6. When was the Declaration of Independence adopted? 
7. What did the Declaration of Independence do? 
8. What is an amendment? 
9. What does the Constitution do? 
10. During the Cold War, what was the main concern of the United States? 
11. Who did the United States fight in World War II? 
12. What do we show loyalty to when we say the Pledge of Allegiance? 
13. Who makes federal laws?  
14. What is the "rule of law?" 
15. What are the Cabinet-level positions? 
16. What are the powers of the federal government? 
17. What powers belong to the states? 
18. What promises do you make when you become a United States citizen?

Having learned a little about the current naturalization process, my mind turned to the process required of our 19th century ancestors to become citizens.  It seemed so much easier then:  live in the country a specific number of years, go to any "court of record," declare one's intention to become a citizen, return several years later, and become a citizen.  I think it was required to take a person to verify the immigrant's identify, yet there was no formal identification required. (When did formal identity become necessary?  After driver's licenses?)  The National Archives's article, "History of the Certificate of Citizenship, 1790-1956," tells me this was the "Old Law" period.  We don't get much helpful genealogy information (name, country of origin, and possibly when the individual came to America) from those records.  What we learn is when an ancestor became a citizen.

I've indexed plenty of naturalization records from the early to mid-1900s for FamilySearch.  Envy set in when I saw all the vital information ancestors had to declare to become citizens (birth date and year; birthplace; name of spouse including maiden name; birthplace of spouse; names of children and birthplaces; place of employment; profession; etc.) sometimes including photographs.  I was also surprised to see that some people were denied citizenship based on their moral (or immoral / less than upstanding) conduct.  I don't know if immigrants who became naturalized citizens during those years were required to take a test, or if it was about declaring allegiance and being morally upright.  

Some connection happened in my mind between Robert Nelson's and Kieran Healy's naturalization processes.  So very different steps in the processes and yet the same outcomes:  the solemn act of giving up citizenship in one's country of birth and adopting a different country as one's own.  As family historians I think for us it's more about the paper (or digital image) and what information we can find there, but as Healy suggests, it's truly more about what happens in the heart and mind.  I suspect that was so for our ancestors who moved to America and became citizens of the United States.  No doubt it was a momentous event for them, too. 

Thank you, Kieran Healy, for sharing your thoughts with us.  And congratulations on your citizenship and welcome to the United States of America.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 

1830 Immigration Documents for Robert Nelson

I found two immigration documents for Robert Nelson and his family.  The first one was a passenger list, and the second was a National Archives index card.  The information is essentially the same but I like the passenger list because it more information about the ship, and names those who travelled with the Nelson family.

The first is the passenger list found at FamilySearch and made available by the National Archives.  You can view it here with a free FamilySearch account.  It is part of their  Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Passenger Lists, 1800-1882 collection.

The Transcription

C. S.    Printed for J. H. Barnes, Ship and Insurance Broker, opposite the Customs House, Philadelphia---by Russell & Mart???
C. 3.   
REPORT OR MANIFEST of all the Passengers taken on board the  Brig Panama  
whereof  Nathaniel Thomas  is Master, from  Newcastle   burthen
  253  Tons and owned by  George Loving, Nathaniel Thomas and John Binner 
of  Duxbury   and bound for  Philadelphia & Boston  

Name / Age / Sex / Occupation / To what Country belonging / Country of which it is their intention to become inhabitants.... [Robert and family are at the bottom of the page.]    
Robert Nelson, 30 years, male, Miner, from Great Britain and Ireland, to United States of America 
Jane Nelson, 23 years, female, [blank], from Great Britain and Ireland, to United States of America
James Nelson, 4 years, male, [blank], from Great Britain and Ireland, to United States of America 
Margaret Nelson, 2 years, female, [blank] from Great Britain and Ireland, to United States of America
George Bell, 44 [or 46] years, male, Miner, from Great Britain and Ireland, to United States of America

o - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - o

Below is the National Archives card which can be found here at FamilySearch (viewable with a free FamilySearch account).  It is in the FamilySearch Collection, United States. Emigration Records 1820-1874, Immigration Records 1820-1874.  It is image 3135 of 6024.

Transcription

    Family Name                            NELSON
    Given Name                              Robert
    Accompanied by                       Jane, James, Margaret
    Age:                                         30
    Sex                                           M
    Occupation                               Miner
    Nationality                               Gr. Br.
    Last Permanent Residence 
    (Town, Country, Etc.)                Gr. Br.
    Destination                               U.S.
    Port of entry                             Phila
    Name of vessel                         Panama
    Date                                         9-23-1830
    PC532

Notes and Comments

• There is a discrepancy in Robert's son's name between census records and these immigration records.  Here his name is James; on census records it is Daniel.  Could one of those names have been a middle name and Robert and Jane were indecisive about what to call their son?  The estimated birth year is the same in census and immigration records.
• The Nelsons travelled on the brig "Panama."  I searched for an image but didn't find one.  I didn't realize that a brig is a specific kind of ship, one with large, square-topped, billowy sails.  It must have been magnificent to be on deck under those grand sails.  (And probably not so grand below-deck.)
• I was surprised that the passenger list had only one page of passengers, a total of 16.  The ship probably also carried cargo.  They would have had to make that long distance of travel worthwhile.
• On the passenger list, Robert is listed with his wife Jane, and their two children James and Margaret.  It looks to me like George Bell is also listed with their family.  I had hoped a second page of passengers might shed some light on George's relationship to the family but without a second page, there's no help.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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The Layout of My Childhood Home for SNGF

Randy's Saturday Night Genealogy Fun challenge for August 23 was this:

Do you recall the layout of one of your family homes (a parent's home, a grandparent's home, your first home with your spouse/SO, etc.)?  Can you estimate the size of the house and the size of the rooms?  What features were in each room?  Can you draw the floor plan, showing doors, windows, etc.?

This sounded both fun and challenging.  I wrote about my childhood home years ago using photos but I had not considered the sizes of the room.  I'm in no way adept at estimating measurements that are longer than a foot so I could be completely wrong about how wide and deep the inside of our house was....  (I hoped the county auditor's website would have measurements but it didn't.)  I guess my drawing is somewhat proportional if inaccurate.

My parents owned the duplex and we lived in one side (except that the dividing wall on the second floor between the two sides of the house had been removed.  The house had a wide front which, when divided into the two sides, made the width and depth of each side about equal, though maybe a little deeper than wider.

This is my rough (very rough) drawing of the layout of the house.

The living room had originally been two rooms but sometime before I was born, my gather removed the dividing wall and it was one long room.  It sometimes seemed awkward because the seating was stretched from one end to almost the other, but it did feel spacious.

The kitchen had one wall with the refrigerator and sink and around the corner the stove.  Because the essentials weren't in a triangle against three walls, it allowed for a kitchen table to take up a good amount of floor space.  (Our current home as the sink, stove, and refrigerator on three walls.  No island or table for us in that part of the kitchen!)

The room beside the kitchen was somewhat of a work room.  My father's desk for repairing watches and jewelry was there, my mom's sewing machine was also there for a while, and eventually my mom's desk stood opposite my father's. 

The upstairs ran the width of the building but was narrower than the first floor.  It was one long hallway with four rooms opening off it.  The rooms on either end were larger than the rooms between them.  All had windows (two in the end rooms) and there were high windows along the back side of the hallway, but there was no air conditioning.  One fan in the hall did nothing to circular air in all four rooms, or in any of the rooms, if truth be told.  We sweltered on hot summer nights.

The wide front porch was one of my favorite places, especially in the summer.  It was a place to play games with friends, read, and watch the thunderstorms.  

As I think of this house now I think how compact it was, and my mom's motto was "a place for everything and everything in its place."  She was definitely the leader in running her household.

If I were to go back and visit, I'm sure it would seem much smaller than it did when I lived there.

—Nancy.

Copyright © 2025 Nancy Messier.  All Rights Reserved. 
Do not copy or use any content from this blog without written permission from the owner. 
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